09-27-05 Worksession
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
Richfield, Minnesota
Special Worksession
September 27, 2005
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Kirsch at 5:33 p.m.
Members Present:
Martin Kirsch, Mayor; Bill Kilian; Susan Rosenberg; Fred Wroge; and Sue
Sandahl.
Staff Present:
Steven Devich, City Manager; Bruce Palm borg, Community Development
Director; Brad Sveum, Fire Services Director; Patrick Smith, Community
Development Manager; Rick Regnier, Chief Building Official; Melissa
Poehlman, Zoning Administrator; Cheryl Krumholz, Recording Secretary; and
Bryan Shirley, City Attorney.
Item # I
Community Development Director Palmborg stated the discussion this evening is in response
to the August 9, 2005 City Council meeting where staff was directed to evaluate the portion of the
sign ordinance that addresses temporary "for sale" and "open house" signs. Staff also evaluated
garage sale signs. The review was a collaborative effort between the Community Development
Department, Public Safety Department and legal counsel. The difficulty is the enforcement.
Council Member Sandahl asked how this issue was raised.
Council Member Wroge explained the City should legalize the past practice of realtor open
house signs on other property because, even though it is against code, it's permitted. Staff should be
empowered to remove illegal signs. Open house signs should be permitted on the day of the event
only. Codifying these sign regulations allows control.
Chief Building Official Regnier said 99% of the open house signs are in the right-of-way on a
street corner which is illegal. In addition, the homeowner's permission is not obtained.
Mr. Regnier said when realty companies are asked to move their signs they're usually down
the next day.
Council Member Wroge said for sale signs should be on that property only. Open house
signs should be placed only on that day.
Council Member Rosenberg said sign advertising for a business, especially a local one,
should be allowed.
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September 27,2005
City Manager Devich asked the City Attorney if the City is allowed to pickup signs if they're on
the boulevard and bring them to the maintenance garage for temporary storage.
City Attorney Shirley said if a sign is on the boulevard without permission it can be removed by
the City. The sign cannot be destroyed and should be available for pickup by the company.
Council Member Sandahl said she has received no phone calls regarding sign problems. She
added that it was a waste of time and money for staff to ride around the City and remove signs unless
there is a complaint and the ordinance is violated.
Council Member Wroge suggested the sign ordinance be removed from the City code if it's
not going to be enforced due to the amount of staff time used and not enforced unless there is a
complaint.
Council Member Sandahl stated an ordinance needs to be in place so if a hazard or violation
exists, it can be handled. If there is no ordinance, there are no grounds for enforcement.
City Manager Devich said these sign issues have been handled on a complaint basis for
years. If there are several sign violations from realtors, it may be appropriate to create a
communication piece to inform them of the ordinance and the expectations of the City. It will be most
effective if people police themselves and understand their responsibilities. He added information
could be placed on the City's website, cable television bulletin board and a possible "Out & About".
This approach may take care of many of the sign issues.
Council Member Kilian suggested creating a sticker that staff could place on signs stating "this
sign illegal- please remove". He said staff making phone calls to contact the owner of a sign is too
time consuming.
Council Member Kilian stated he did not agree to eliminating the sign ordinance. Residents
need to be made aware of the sign ordinance.
City Attorney Shirley said using a sticker was legal as long as the adhesive was not too
difficult to remove because the sign could not be defaced.
Council Member Wroge said only the for sale sign portion of the ordinance should be removed
from the ordinance if it is not being enforced. Those who sell real estate should know the City's
ordinance.
Council Member Wroge expressed concern of signs on poles because it's similar to graffiti
and damages City property. A policy is needed for immediate removal of signs on poles.
Chief Building Official Regnier explained that CSO's are instructed to remove signs from
poles, including garage sale signs.
Council Member Sandahl stated she liked some "sandwich" boards because it is a good way
to advertise and suggested they be allowed in the ordinance.
Council Member Kilian said the boards should be permitted for a fee.
Council Member Wroge said he did not support these boards because there will be more and
more of them if they're permitted.
Council Member Kilian said the boards could be restricted to commercial use and sidewalk
size.
City Attorney Shirley cautioned the loss of content neutrality because of the first amendment
principal of freedom of speech which applies to all signs. There would need to be a distinction
between commercial and non-commercial signage. The amount of time, place and manner of signs
can be regulated, but not content.
Council Member Kilian said he supported the current ordinance and that stricter enforcement
is needed.
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September 27,2005
Council Member Sandahl expressed support for Council Member Kilian's suggestion on using
stickers. She expressed support for the revisions to the real estate sign ordinances as suggested by
staff in Council Memo #120.
Council Member Wroge said he supported anything that works. He said he does not want an
increase in the number of allowable signs so expressed support for realtor open house signs on the
day of the event only. He said he did not support additional for sale signs than the ordinance allows.
Council Member Sandahl stated support for the garage sale sign ordinance revisions
suggested by staff in the Council Memo.
Chief Building Official Regnier clarified that all garage signs are illegally placed except on the
property of the sale and asked the City Council if placing the sticker applied to these signs.
The City Council said yes.
Council Member Wroge said not many people follow the garage sale ordinance so it's almost
unenforceable.
Council Member Wrage again expressed concern regarding signs on poles and they should
be removed immediately.
City Manager Devich explained the wood poles are not the City's but rather the utility
company.
Chief Building Official Regnier said as utility service work is done on the poles, the signs are
removed but the company does not go out and search for signs.
Chief Building Official Regnier explained the sandwich boards are not currently allowed
because of safety issues such as a gust of wind blowing them into the street and potentially causing
an accident.
Council Member Kilian said the permit process for the board could require sandbags to
prevent the blowing down.
Council Member Wroge asked about restricting content to maintain the freedom of speech.
City Attorney Shirley explained the City would need to justify its rationale for allowing certain
content.
Council Member Wroge said he supported the suggested real estate ordinance revisions
because it is accepted behavior.
Council Member Kilian and Council Member Wroge expressed support for the suggested
garage sale sign ordinance revision.
Council Member Sandahl said the sandwich board restrictions should include a permit fee and
a set sidewalk square footage for pedestrian safety.
The City Council supported the use of stickers for illegally placed signs.
Chief Building Official Regnier asked if this applied to those signs only in the boulevard.
The City Council said yes:
City Attorney Shirley suggested the ordinance include a garage sale definition.
Council Member Kilian asked why it was necessary to distinguish between signs.
City Attorney Shirley said it was better to have less distinction.
City Manager Devich said this issue would be returned to the City Council for additional
discussion.
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September 27, 2005
The meeting was adjourned by unanimous consent at 6:27 p.m.
Date Approved: October 11, 2005
CA I~
Che~~mh .Iz
Recording Secretary